Williams Positive

meatpie · January 20

Starry Heights appears to have returned a post mortem positive.

Flanders · January 20

Unless the horse had ADHD it would have acted like a stimulant... not a good look.
Any previous positives around Aust racing for this drug?

Chris · January 20

Old horse too, one too many "starry heights"

FairCraic69 · January 20

WOW This is a bit of BOMB SHELL init? Watch This Space Rock! In Other News from the east coast, there ar 25 trainers that are also under the micro scope with some being told not to race certain horses for 12 months... Whats going on there##

Flanders · January 20

Suspended immediately pending the inquiry according to the last paragraph on the Racing WA website or whatever its called

FairCraic69 · January 20

You are correct Flanders

Acting under the provisions of Local Rule 22, Stewards have directed that the licences of Mr and Mrs Williams be suspended pending the outcome of the Stewards inquiry.

It's High Time the Stewards Stopped handing out Paltry $5000 fines and started dishing out the Old School 12 months that trainers and jockeys got from the 50's to the 80s get caught giving one a run, the jock and trainer got 12 months, return a positive swab they got 12 months, Some trainers got 5 lots of 12 months over 20 years theres still one training now had about 5 Pozzies.

Try telling a copper if you get pulled over and blew over the limit oh it's not my fault, I thought I was drinking Mid Strength but the silly mrs got me Full strength Go easy on me Officer.

Like everything else in society the racing industry has become WOKE and SOFT.

Thrawn · January 20

Positive test for Codiene in a winner in 2022 - “poppy seeds” $5k fine
Horse scratched prior to the Railway in 2014 after stewards observed some unusual behaviour. Foreman fined for application of “vanilla essence”
2015 another horse was found in the stables with a puncture mark and dried blood which could not be explained to the stewards.

Don’t recall any other trainers having such strange bad luck when it comes to their horses seemingly accidentally ingesting prohibited substances

SLIPPERGOLDEN · January 20

https://www.justhorseracing.com.au/news/australian-racing/grant-and-alana-williams-suspended-for-positive-swab/879689 ;

Had chewed on some fencing after infected batch of feed. All should be fine. :-B

Flanders · January 20

Thrawn said:
Positive test for Codiene in a winner in 2022 - “poppy seeds” $5k fine
Horse scratched prior to the Railway in 2014 after stewards observed some unusual behaviour. Foreman fined for application of “vanilla essence”
2015 another horse was found in the stables with a puncture mark and dried blood which could not be explained to the stewards.

Don’t recall any other trainers having such strange bad luck when it comes to their horses seemingly accidentally ingesting prohibited substances

I did not realise they had such a bad record.
Not being fasciscous but was Grant a trotting trainer (seem to remember hearing he was)? And if so, did he have priors there too?

SLIPPERGOLDEN · January 20

Wiliams' (presumed) legal response is included in this article

https://betsy.com.au/wa-trainers-williams-suspended-ritalin-positive-starry-heights/ ;

Thrawn · January 20

Flanders said:

Thrawn said:
Positive test for Codiene in a winner in 2022 - “poppy seeds” $5k fine
Horse scratched prior to the Railway in 2014 after stewards observed some unusual behaviour. Foreman fined for application of “vanilla essence”
2015 another horse was found in the stables with a puncture mark and dried blood which could not be explained to the stewards.

Don’t recall any other trainers having such strange bad luck when it comes to their horses seemingly accidentally ingesting prohibited substances

I did not realise they had such a bad record.
Not being fasciscous but was Grant a trotting trainer (seem to remember hearing he was)? And if so, did he have priors there too?

Yes he was a trotting trainer. Unsure of his record there.

A lot of people don’t realise the prior record because as another poster noted they don’t hand out suspensions anymore. People remember suspensions but they don’t remember $5k fines.

All part of the damage control by the industry to protect the reputation in the public eye. Can’t have the prizemoney leading trainer getting suspended.

Although I must say with the yearling sales coming up in a few weeks I wouldn’t be rushing to buy a horse that Williams Racing purchase if I was a prospective new owner. Mind you they will probably be exonerated by then with some story about the pill falling out of an employees pocket.

FairCraic69 · January 20

C'Mon Thrawn your throwing up conspiracy theories LOL

The media release is out on Team Williams the drug found in the system of the IL fated Starry Heights is Ritalinic Acid which is a metabolite of the human medication methylphenidate (Ritalin), for (ADHD) which is a Prohibited List A substance under the RWWA Rules of Thoroughbred Racing as it is a Schedule 8 (S8) controlled drug.

Here's a previous case: Arcane Lass — Ritalin Positive, Trainer Terry Moore

On 26 October 2008, a greyhound named Arcane Lass was presented to race at the Sale Greyhound Racing Club.
A pre-race urine sample from Arcane Lass showed the presence of methylphenidate (Ritalin) and its metabolite ritalinic acid — substances prohibited under greyhound racing rules.

???? Stewards’ Inquiry

A stewards’ inquiry was held on 27 January 2009 by Greyhound Racing Victoria (GRV).
Evidence was heard from the trainer Mr. Terry Moore and veterinary and steward witnesses.

???? Charges

Moore was charged under GAR 83(2)(3) (the rule requiring a greyhound to be free of drugs when presented for a race) because Arcane Lass’ sample contained Ritalin.

⚖️ Decision

Moore pleaded not guilty, but stewards found him guilty of the charge.

???? Penalty

Mr. Terry Moore’s licence was disqualified for 16 months, starting 31 January 2009.
The greyhound Arcane Lass was also disqualified from the race at Sale GRC on 26 October 2008.

???? Context

The ruling shows that even nearly two decades ago, Australian racing authorities treated schedule 8-type stimulants like Ritalin seriously when detected in a competitor’s system.
This case was in greyhound racing, not in thoroughbred or harness racing — but the principle (strict liability and mandatory penalties) is the same across animal racing codes.

Thrawn · January 20

FairCraic69 said:
C'Mon Thrawn your throwing up conspiracy theories LOL
The media release is out on Team Williams the drug found in the system of the IL fated Starry Heights is Ritalinic Acid which is a metabolite of the human medication methylphenidate (Ritalin), for (ADHD) which is a Prohibited List A substance under the RWWA Rules of Thoroughbred Racing as it is a Schedule 8 (S8) controlled drug.

Here's a previous case: Arcane Lass — Ritalin Positive, Trainer Terry Moore
On 26 October 2008, a greyhound named Arcane Lass was presented to race at the Sale Greyhound Racing Club.
A pre-race urine sample from Arcane Lass showed the presence of methylphenidate (Ritalin) and its metabolite ritalinic acid — substances prohibited under greyhound racing rules.
???? Stewards’ Inquiry
A stewards’ inquiry was held on 27 January 2009 by Greyhound Racing Victoria (GRV).
Evidence was heard from the trainer Mr. Terry Moore and veterinary and steward witnesses.
???? Charges
Moore was charged under GAR 83(2)(3) (the rule requiring a greyhound to be free of drugs when presented for a race) because Arcane Lass’ sample contained Ritalin.
⚖️ Decision
Moore pleaded not guilty, but stewards found him guilty of the charge.
???? Penalty
Mr. Terry Moore’s licence was disqualified for 16 months, starting 31 January 2009.
The greyhound Arcane Lass was also disqualified from the race at Sale GRC on 26 October 2008.
???? Context
The ruling shows that even nearly two decades ago, Australian racing authorities treated schedule 8-type stimulants like Ritalin seriously when detected in a competitor’s system.
This case was in greyhound racing, not in thoroughbred or harness racing — but the principle (strict liability and mandatory penalties) is the same across animal racing codes.

Well we will just have to wait and see, but I would be very surprised to see the same outcome for this particular case

Flanders · January 20

Wait til RSPCA get a wind of it- they'll be insisting it somehow caused the horse to have to get put down

Precision1 · January 20

Stewards report on the day shows Starry Heights was selected for random pre-race blood testing as well as post race testing after being put down. I notice in all the releases I am hearing that they are only mentioning a positive in the post-mortem testing. To me this is very relevant and needs to be cleared up if both tested positive or not.

Yankee · January 21

I wonder what Mr Peters thoughts are?

spinking · January 21

who cares what his thoughts are . Dont think it would phase Grant & Alana one bit

FairCraic69 · January 21

Precision1 I think I can assist with you query about pre race and post race/post mortem.

Pre race blood tests in racehorses are Only to detect Bi-Carb levels, So Ritalin wouldn't be tested pre race...

FairCraic69 · January 21

Here's The Silly Part.

Pre race testing Gallopers for Bi-Carb Doesn't get tested in a Lab until Days Later...bout as useful as an ash tray on a Motorbike.

However there was a Bi-Carb Testing Machine at Gloucester Park where they did test and get a result within half an hour that's why some horses were called of the track in their prelim workouts to be told they were over the 36mm threshold and scratched.

Don't watch The Red Hots much Nowa days so don't know if they still do that.

FairCraic69 · January 21

Mr Peters would be "Laughing like a schoolgirl" after the Puffer comment post the Railway, we have won plenty of Group 1s for Peters but that "Meant Nothing" Now we are Group 1 trainers in our own right,

Oh Dear The "karma train" is blowing it's whistle

Markovina · January 21

FairCraic69 said:
You are correct Flanders
Acting under the provisions of Local Rule 22, Stewards have directed that the licences of Mr and Mrs Williams be suspended pending the outcome of the Stewards inquiry.

It's High Time the Stewards Stopped handing out Paltry $5000 fines and started dishing out the Old School 12 months that trainers and jockeys got from the 50's to the 80s get caught giving one a run, the jock and trainer got 12 months, return a positive swab they got 12 months, Some trainers got 5 lots of 12 months over 20 years theres still one training now had about 5 Pozzies.
Try telling a copper if you get pulled over and blew over the limit oh it's not my fault, I thought I was drinking Mid Strength but the silly mrs got me Full strength Go easy on me Officer.
Like everything else in society the racing industry has become WOKE and SOFT.

You are correct - i will give you a couple of examples , many years back when i followed the gallops

In Syd in the 80s John the sherrif Schreck he gave Ron Quinton ( who i think won the Syd metro jockey title 7-8 times ) 12 months for giving one of Les Bridges a " run " in a midweek meeting at Randwick , that would just not happen to a high profile jockey today - no way

And in Trotting NSW are by far the toughest , and WA are one of the softest . In NSW if you get done for Cobalt , you get 2 years , no ifs , buts or maybes , you get 2 years . There has been plenty of cases but 2 recent ones , 1 participant had 20-25 years , a complete clean sheet , no priors for anything , and the other bloke had plus 25 years and no priors , and they still both got 2 years

I posted a year or 2 back a WA Trots trainer only got 12 mths for cobalt , and i posted he was damm lucky he wasnt in NSW because he would have got at least double , and guess what the moderators on this site , they must be ex WA Stewards or RWWA Employees , because they deleted both my posts - that is 1000% fact

silky · January 21

Markovina said:

FairCraic69 said:
You are correct Flanders
Acting under the provisions of Local Rule 22, Stewards have directed that the licences of Mr and Mrs Williams be suspended pending the outcome of the Stewards inquiry.

It's High Time the Stewards Stopped handing out Paltry $5000 fines and started dishing out the Old School 12 months that trainers and jockeys got from the 50's to the 80s get caught giving one a run, the jock and trainer got 12 months, return a positive swab they got 12 months, Some trainers got 5 lots of 12 months over 20 years theres still one training now had about 5 Pozzies.
Try telling a copper if you get pulled over and blew over the limit oh it's not my fault, I thought I was drinking Mid Strength but the silly mrs got me Full strength Go easy on me Officer.
Like everything else in society the racing industry has become WOKE and SOFT.
You are correct - i will give you a couple of examples , many years back when i followed the gallops

In Syd in the 80s John the sherrif Schreck he gave Ron Quinton ( who i think won the Syd metro jockey title 7-8 times ) 12 months for giving one of Les Bridges a " run " in a midweek meeting at Randwick , that would just not happen to a high profile jockey today - no way

And in Trotting NSW are by far the toughest , and WA are one of the softest . In NSW if you get done for Cobalt , you get 2 years , no ifs , buts or maybes , you get 2 years . There has been plenty of cases but 2 recent ones , 1 participant had 20-25 years , a complete clean sheet , no priors for anything , and the other bloke had plus 25 years and no priors , and they still both got 2 years

I posted a year or 2 back a WA Trots trainer only got 12 mths for cobalt , and i posted he was damm lucky he wasnt in NSW because he would have got at least double , and guess what the moderators on this site , they must be ex WA Stewards or RWWA Employees , because they deleted both my posts - that is 1000% fact

I also noticed Meryl Hayley had a positive to cobalt. Her horses now with Matt Nash

FairCraic69 · January 21

Here's a Giggle This is a bit like trainers getting positives, and pleading Ignorance or looking bewildered.

A 90 year old man went before judge Judy on Shop Lifting Charges at Walmart which he said he really couldn't remember, Judge Judy said that's Ok were gonna send you to Jail.

The Bloke remonstrated and said Judge I'm 90 years old I can't go to Jail.

Quick as a Wink Judge Judy said I know But you can try, and we're gonna help Ya Bahahaha

Arapaho · January 21

FairCraic69 said:
Precision1 I think I can assist with you query about pre race and post race/post mortem.
Pre race blood tests in racehorses are Only to detect Bi-Carb levels, So Ritalin wouldn't be tested pre race...

Pre race blood tests do detect other irregularities, two recent positives, Flunixin ,a gallops trainer and Clozapine ,a harness trainer.both from pre race testing.

See they say Ritalin was discovered in blood samples post mortem,so they now can recheck prerace samples to compare.

FairCraic69 · January 21

I stand Corrected Arapaho Things Must Have Changed at Least in QLD you are correct.

I found one in Ipswich last year Trained by a Very Prominent Sunny Coast trainer the horse must have run a place because it was disqualified and he was fined 3K. He had it in his Car Ash Tray.

But the tests are seemingly Obtuse as the samples don't get tested till days later, what's the point? Imagine connections feelings when running second in a Significant Race, then the winner tests positive to a banned drug, they don't have a winning Video, or Photo or Presentation and associated interview because Some Cheating Person Doped the Winner, and then you read the same Old Rhetoric from the Stewards Desk because the person came forward, their personal circumstances, their remorse and he you go we are going to whack you with a great big fine of $5000 (Which I believe they can pay off over a year) The Cheaters must be giggling to themselves after leaving the inquiry especially if they won 20K on The Punt.

Not Forgetting The Tote and Bookie paid out on the winner and the Punter who backed the 2nd horse Loses their Money. The system is Broken when the Stewards keep fining them a paltry Amount.

For Mine 1st Time 12 months 2nd time 5 years Third strike Find a new way to Rort People!

Arapaho · January 21

Both positives in WA ,Filthy Habits was the galloper and Chaco Eagle the pacer.

Tend to agree regarding penalties, repeat offenders are numerous.

Flanders · January 21

Would this Williams positive mean that previous samples that are stored frozen, will be tested, or re-tested?

GLAMOUR · January 21

This will come to nothing,some one will come up with something,and maybe a small fine,or someone will take the wrap.

Desperado · January 21

Arapaho said:

FairCraic69 said:
Precision1 I think I can assist with you query about pre race and post race/post mortem.
Pre race blood tests in racehorses are Only to detect Bi-Carb levels, So Ritalin wouldn't be tested pre race...
Pre race blood tests do detect other irregularities, two recent positives, Flunixin ,a gallops trainer and Clozapine ,a harness trainer.both from pre race testing.
See they say Ritalin was discovered in blood samples post mortem,so they now can recheck prerace samples to compare.

The postmortem positive results would be from hair samples not blood. I know the official RWWA communication says blood but maybe that's a mistake. The pre-race blood test was not positive.

meatpie · January 21

Desperado said:

Arapaho said:

FairCraic69 said:
Precision1 I think I can assist with you query about pre race and post race/post mortem.
Pre race blood tests in racehorses are Only to detect Bi-Carb levels, So Ritalin wouldn't be tested pre race...
Pre race blood tests do detect other irregularities, two recent positives, Flunixin ,a gallops trainer and Clozapine ,a harness trainer.both from pre race testing.
See they say Ritalin was discovered in blood samples post mortem,so they now can recheck prerace samples to compare.

The postmortem positive results would be from hair samples not blood. I know the official RWWA communication says blood but maybe that's a mistake. The pre-race blood test was not positive.

Pretty sure they take blood, definitely take a urine sample and probably a hair sample.

Thoroly_Bread · January 21

I don't think anyone is shocked, probably makes for a good argument to not train as a partnership then just transfer all the horses to Alana if you get popped.

What was the falling out with Peters? I guess eventually he has a falling out with all his trainers.....

G'day Punter!

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