Biggest Win Ever in a Feature Race

Arapaho · January 6

Not sure if this was made public or not,but back when, Pure Steel and Markovina were racing against each other, there was conjecture who was the better horse.

Both Roberts and Croft claiming their champ the better.

Croft;s argument was that Markovina had beaten Pure Steel on more occassions {and I stress at the time}.

This riled Roberts who approached Croft wanting a match race for $30,000 winner take all.

As we all know this never eventuated

Final outcome No Love Lost.

Markovina · January 6

JayJay said:
Crowds at Busso have been enormous over Boxing Day and New Years Day but they make it terribly hard for them by flooding the calendar with meetings for the lower class horses at Albany, Gloucester Park etc....strangling them to a slow death. They (RWWA) have finally....after much prompting and stout resistance... accepted the gratuitous advice on offer from many quarters and taken on board some new programming codes for Busselton which may hopefully improve fields.

On field sizes, I think a max of 8, considering all of the prevailing circumstances, is the correct decision.

In the further useless information department, when Bonnie raced horses with Bernie Ogden, Charlie Rifici was often the trainer and Bob Smith used Jim Schrader for horses in his own name. Smith's colours are now the Reed Stable (blue, white sash, red sleeves) and Bonnies colours paid deference to his Swan Districts background (black, white sleeves and red armbands).

Big link with Swans and the trots.....Cooper, Charleson, Sangalli, Gartrell, Slater, George, Guidice....one day I'll make a list. I like making lists. They come in handy to counteract false information, fake claims and general misconceptions. They irritate the hell out of "bull***t artists.

Look mate re the Swans and the connection to Trotting , look im not interested in some bloke who played 6 senior games for them or someone who played 1 test match for Aust and got called for chucking /throwing

However i am interested in someone who kicked 6 goals in a stategame and 90 for the season ( refer 3rd last paragraph) against a powerhouse SA team - have a look at the all time greats in their team

And to put the icing on the cake and the cherry on top when this bloke had a stint playing for Fitzroy in VFL , he worked for the legendary Teddy Demmler - hah-hah-hah

JayJay · January 6

Two completely different types of horses. Classic Families does an interesting exercise in listing "classic wins" for horses. In addition to Inters Wins (final and Heats), Cups, Derbies and major juvenile features they also include other top line races, open metro FFA's etc.

Both horses were foaled in 1971.

Pure Steel 127 starts, 68 wins, 29 seconds, 8 thirds, 50 "Classic wins", $915,302 in LTE. 1.56.9

Markovina 97 starts, 35 wins, 13 seconds, 7 thirds, 11 "Classic Wins", $246,678 in LTE. 1.59.1

Neither fired a shot at stud.

Pure Steel: 361 foals, 84 winners, Mister Devere the richest ($66,312) by a whisker, Silken Dawn 1.58.2 TT the fastest.

Markovina: 149 foals, 33 winners, Gamby Pride both the richest ($118,313) by a mile, and fastest 1.58.1. by a similar distance.

There is a good study waiting to be done by some graduate University Psychologist, specialising in personality disorders, to investigate the percentage of owners of really good horses (champions and dominant performers) who transform into entitled pricks over the lifetime of them owning there champions, and how many transmogrify back to normality after their racing career is over. Or maybe, they were entitled bullies before they ever owned a horse who never understood the meaning of humility from the start.

On the flip side, there are many examples of generous and understated humility which bring credit to the Industry.

Pure Steel the greatest horse I ever saw race.

warrenrobinson · January 6

All due respects to Markovina he was a very good horse but not in the same league as Pure Steel. PS was not the fastest horse but the best by a margin.

Markovina · January 6

warrenrobinson said:
All due respects to Markovina he was a very good horse but not in the same league as Pure Steel. PS was not the fastest horse but the best by a margin.

Your probably right re Pure Steel v Markovina

I liked Markovina because it was sit sprinter , i found them the most exciting pacers by a long long way , Mitchell Victory was another one who could sit and rip

Im happy to settle for Im The Mighty Quinn as the best ever , tremendous horse and exciting , as well , i had Popular Alm up very high but their is absolutely no bias with me, and the Late Curmudgeon who was a good poster and a conservative poster , he said he had reliable strong mail that Popular Alm was getting some of the real '' Good stuff " from SA - so i must admit that has taken a little bit of the gloss off PA

Re Pure Steel the best ever , there is one fatal flaw in that , and that is the great FRK

You have torespect horsemen who have handled these horses , FRK once trained and drove PS , plus he trained and also drove a number of top line pacers

When ITMQ was getting near the end of its career , Gary Hall Snr ( because FRK was Garys idol when he was young ) he invited Fred to his property to drive ITMQ in trackwork

After he drove ITMQ , someone in the media said to him , youve had all these top horses during your career what do you think , and FRK his reply was quote " I wouldnt put them in the same paddock as ITMQ

When you are rating horses i think you have to be guided and respect horsemen who have handled them

And what he said was emphatic

JayJay · January 6

There is no "fatal flaw" in someone having an opinion that differs from someone else's opinion.

There is a "fatal flaw" in professing zero bias as opposed to everyone else's flawed objectivity.

I can say a lot of things "emphatically" and they could all be completely incorrect. Being "emphatic" does not imply prevention of either discussion or debate.

warrenrobinson · January 7

It's some what comical Marko how idol's change especially after altercations in the reinsman room.

Arapaho · January 7

We all have our own opinions and are entitled to them ,

I too agree that based on records,what they achieved,their racing styles and what they brought to the industry that Pure Steel was the better of the two.

But that doesn't mean Pure Steel would beat Markovina all the time as proven by the amount of time they clashed.

No doubt its my belief Pure Steel was our greatest stayer ever and up there with the best.

But if you are going to go on records,achievements, longevity,over coming setbacks etc,you would have too include Blacks A Fake after all he won Australia's most prestigious race the ID 4 times,plus a 2nd and 3rd over a course of more than six years, some feat.

Whereas Pure Steel failed to win one at I think four attempts.

Also another belief of mine, is that while Pure Steel won the match race with Satinover, fairly and squarely, unfortunately Satinover was not same horse after been injured after his 17 straight win in which he beat Pure Steel after doing all the work,with Pure Steel, by his standards having a relatively easy run..

Satinover's 2 wins after his comeback and before the match race were well below that previous achievement,where he fell in after having easy runs against far inferior horses than Pure Steel.

Obviously we all had a opinion on who would win the race and this is the reason I selected Pure Steel before the race not because he was the better horse.

Yes, we all have our opinions of who was ,is, better than the other,but when these great horses clash in a race,there are so many variables which can decide the outcome of that particular race.

Markovina · January 7

JayJay said:
There is no "fatal flaw" in someone having an opinion that differs from someone else's opinion.

There is a "fatal flaw" in professing zero bias as opposed to everyone else's flawed objectivity.

I can say a lot of things "emphatically" and they could all be completely incorrect. Being "emphatic" does not imply prevention of either discussion or debate.

What a load of nonsense , i dont EVEN know what you are saying their

Fred Kersley said after handling the great Im The Mighty Quinn , that you wouldnt put Pure Steel in the same paddock as at . Now you are the expert on everthing and anything , you havent handled either horse but you are the expert and Fred isnt

Both Koala King and Markovina were both dangerous sit sprinters and doing just that they had victories over Pure Steel , and as much as i liked Markovina , ITMQ was a much superior horse to both Markovina and Koala King , and if ITMQ had the cold sit on Pure Steel it would make a mess of Pure Steel , thats my view and FRK statement re not having them in the same paddock , that backs that up 100%

You have to be right on every subject , and anyone has a contrary view you dont like it . When Chop Chop post his views , your replies to his posts are allways a little bit smart alec , a little bit nasty and a little bit personal.

Chopchop43 · January 7

The whole poin

Markovina said:

JayJay said:
There is no "fatal flaw" in someone having an opinion that differs from someone else's opinion.

There is a "fatal flaw" in professing zero bias as opposed to everyone else's flawed objectivity.

I can say a lot of things "emphatically" and they could all be completely incorrect. Being "emphatic" does not imply prevention of either discussion or debate.
What a load of nonsense , i dont EVEN know what you are saying their

Fred Kersley said after handling the great Im The Mighty Quinn , that you wouldnt put Pure Steel in the same paddock as at . Now you are the expert on everthing and anything , you havent handled either horse but you are the expert and Fred isnt

Both Koala King and Markovina were both dangerous sit sprinters and doing just that they had victories over Pure Steel , and as much as i liked Markovina , ITMQ was a much superior horse to both Markovina and Koala King , and if ITMQ had the cold sit on Pure Steel it would make a mess of Pure Steel , thats my view and FRK statement re not having them in the same paddock , that backs that up 100%

You have to be right on every subject , and anyone has a contrary view you dont like it . When Chop Chop post his views , your replies to his posts are allways a little bit smart alec , a little bit nasty and a little bit personal.

well I mean according to some posters on this forum opinions are allowed unless they are opinions that dont support their view , I mean the discussion on who someone views as a better horse should always be a light hearted discussion based around people's opinions, none of us have been lucky enough to sit behind horses of this quality so to say one is definitively better than the others is outrageous , its like saying Steve Smith is a better batsman than Don Bradman , different generations , different attacks faced, both had completely different batting styles to compare the 2 and come out with a definitive winner would be insane , unfortunately some just feel the need to be right about everything

JayJay · January 7

Oh cry me a river. How outrageous.

Pure Steel is the best horse I have seen. An opinion. My opinion. Not yours? Gosh, I won't sleep tonight.

warrenrobinson · January 7

Sometimes opinions don't support the facts. :D

Chopchop43 · January 7

warrenrobinson said:
Sometimes opinions don't support the facts. :D

ok facts say leap to fame is the best pacer to grace our shores and there is no argument that can justify anyones opinion as he tops most likely the most important metrics which is prizemoney won and none of your opinions are worth anything because the statistics back that up

Markovina · January 8

Markovina said:

JayJay said:
Crowds at Busso have been enormous over Boxing Day and New Years Day but they make it terribly hard for them by flooding the calendar with meetings for the lower class horses at Albany, Gloucester Park etc....strangling them to a slow death. They (RWWA) have finally....after much prompting and stout resistance... accepted the gratuitous advice on offer from many quarters and taken on board some new programming codes for Busselton which may hopefully improve fields.

On field sizes, I think a max of 8, considering all of the prevailing circumstances, is the correct decision.

In the further useless information department, when Bonnie raced horses with Bernie Ogden, Charlie Rifici was often the trainer and Bob Smith used Jim Schrader for horses in his own name. Smith's colours are now the Reed Stable (blue, white sash, red sleeves) and Bonnies colours paid deference to his Swan Districts background (black, white sleeves and red armbands).

Big link with Swans and the trots.....Cooper, Charleson, Sangalli, Gartrell, Slater, George, Guidice....one day I'll make a list. I like making lists. They come in handy to counteract false information, fake claims and general misconceptions. They irritate the hell out of "bull***t artists.
Look mate re the Swans and the connection to Trotting , look im not interested in some bloke who played 6 senior games for them or someone who played 1 test match for Aust and got called for chucking /throwing

However i am interested in someone who kicked 6 goals in a stategame and 90 for the season ( refer 3rd last paragraph) against a powerhouse SA team - have a look at the all time greats in their team

And to put the icing on the cake and the cherry on top when this bloke had a stint playing for Fitzroy in VFL , he worked for the legendary Teddy Demmler - hah-hah-hah

If you are a Max George fan , seeing he has got a harness racing background , that entire last qtr of that 74 state game is on you tube , just watched it

And Big Max number 1 , looks a bit like Neil Balme back in the day , solidly built and got the long hair , very prominent from the 5 minute mark to the 8 minute mark , and he was very efficient in that game , and his run up to kick for goal he has got a little bit of the Josh Kennedy stutter

JayJay · January 8

The "some bloke who played 6 games" (Bonny Sweetapple) actually played 160 league games.

The "someone who played 1 test for Australia and got called" played 74 state games for WA, top score 154. He also played 218 league games for Swans, 3 premierships, 20 State games for WA including the national championship in 1961 and won a Simpson Medal.

Your comments about them are incorrect and offensive.

Max George was a fine player. He played 74 games for Swans, 8 for Fitzroy and 33 for Central Districts. He played 3 state games for WA.

I am not remotely interested in who you are "not interested in" but would expect you to be factual.

Markovina · January 8

JayJay said:
The "some bloke who played 6 games" (Bonny Sweetapple) actually played 160 league games.

The "someone who played 1 test for Australia and got called" played 74 state games for WA, top score 154. He also played 218 league games for Swans, 3 premierships, 20 State games for WA including the national championship in 1961 and won a Simpson Medal.

Your comments about them are incorrect and offensive.

Max George was a fine player. He played 74 games for Swans, 8 for Fitzroy and 33 for Central Districts. He played 3 state games for WA.

I am not remotely interested in who you are "not interested in" but would expect you to be factual.

Oh GAGF

You follow me around on this forum like a blue aarse fly

Even when i posted re Danny Powers comment about the run down condition of the Royal Melb Showgrounds , re the catering had closed , you had to immediately come on nit picking like a school teacher marking a kids essay , oh actually the catering hasnt closed at GP

Like i say GAGF - and go back to one of your favourite hobbies and that would be definitely trying to pick fly shiit out of black pepper !!!!!

Chariotsonfire · January 8

I was going to let Markovina's comments pass, but I feel obliged to defend his denigration of Keith Slater.

I am assuming the six game league player was directed at me and I am fair game in that regard.

Keith Slater represented WA in three sports Football, Cricket and Baseball and I doubt that too many would have achieved that feat. He also demolished Polly Farmer in the 1961 Grand Final which was no mean feat.

This subject has gone way off topic, but Markovina as he so often does has descended to personal attacks (in this case on JayJay) when he does not agree with an opinion.

Chopchop43 · January 9

Chariotsonfire said:
I was going to let Markovina's comments pass, but I feel obliged to defend his denigration of Keith Slater.
I am assuming the six game league player was directed at me and I am fair game in that regard.
Keith Slater represented WA in three sports Football, Cricket and Baseball and I doubt that too many would have achieved that feat. He also demolished Polly Farmer in the 1961 Grand Final which was no mean feat.
This subject has gone way off topic, but Markovina as he so often does has descended to personal attacks (in this case on JayJay) when he does not agree with an opinion.

i think there are more than one culprit who engage in personal attacks when people dont agree with their opinions , if your going to dish it out be ready to accept it fair is fair

Markovina · January 9

Chariotsonfire said:
I was going to let Markovina's comments pass, but I feel obliged to defend his denigration of Keith Slater.
I am assuming the six game league player was directed at me and I am fair game in that regard.
Keith Slater represented WA in three sports Football, Cricket and Baseball and I doubt that too many would have achieved that feat. He also demolished Polly Farmer in the 1961 Grand Final which was no mean feat.
This subject has gone way off topic, but Markovina as he so often does has descended to personal attacks (in this case on JayJay) when he does not agree with an opinion.

Keith Slater as a football commentator yes i enjoyed listening to him

However re Cricket commentating i hated him

The reason being , he was a regular on 6PR with Gary Carvolth who was good

And when Slaters mate " Timmy " got the aarse , and Gilchcrist got the job , Slater went on a 2 year vendetta absolutely slagged off Gilchrist at every opportunity , it was an absolute disgrace , it was nasty , it was personal , and it was vicious . It was along the lines , Timmy is so much better , well that is ok that is your opinion . But id think at the time , why do you have to be so nasty in your comments to the new bloke , they were along the lines of , look this bloke compared to "Timmy " is third or 4th rate , he is utter rubbish compared to " Timmy" , this is a disgraceful decision that this bloke has got the job at "Timmys " expense

Keither Slaters comments for the 1st 2 years of Adam Gilchrist career as a West Aust 1st class cricketer were an absolute disgrace and degrading of Gilchrists ability as a cricketer

And Slater should have made a full public apology to Adam , for the barrage of abuse and criticism directed at him for the 1st 2 years of Adams career as a WA Cricketer

And how horribly wrong Slater got it with his nasty comments . Adam ended up one of Aust all time greats

And Jay Jay loves to trump everyone with his record book stats , like Pure Steels total wins against Markovinas , so come on JJ put up Gilchrists test record and also put up Slaters test record , the bloke he relentlessly rubbished ( because he got Timmys spot ) for the 1st 2 years of his career

Chopchop43 · January 9

I think its pretty well known behind the scenes Zoehrer was a bit of a pain in the ass to deal with on so many levels hence why WA were head-hunting Gilchrist for a fair amount of time, he was never going to break into that NSW team as a specialist batsman nor was he going to displace Phil Emery as their keeper, so Gilly did the smart thing and moved states to take over from an ageing , increasing more difficult to deal with Zoehrer. To be so harshly critical of a young fella taking such an opportunity handed to him on a platter by the big wigs at the waca is pretty poor form on slaters behalf

G'day Punter!

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