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New Handicapping System for the Trots

Harness & Greyhounds

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  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    Previous Friday, 9 out of the 10 races had an odds on favourite, so make that 27 out of 28 races.
    +1 -1
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    3,320 posts
    JayJay said:

    Just an observation.....fixed odds markets up for Friday Night, 9 odds on favourites, which marries up well with the 9 odds on favourites from last Tuesdays Meeting. So that's 18 out of 18 from a new model that promised competitive, "like for like" racing with far fewer odds on favourites. The Lemmings are getting closer to the cliff edge.

    You can complain all you like - and keep blaming the handicapping

    I looked at the form at Narrogin - and didnt have one bet - but had plenty of bets elsewhere 

    The bottom line with Narrogin - given the WA horse population and the set up of the tracks here =- is 40-50% of the horses racing tonight at Narrogin should be instantly retired - maybe even a higher percentage than that

    What you cant grasp mate - is in other states - these rubbish low class horses can all race against each other - Mildura and the NSW Riverina are 2 prime examples - and the tyranny of distance  protects them - they are  in far flung places along way  from anywhere  

    If WA had more money - so there was alot more meetings and races - then you could have say an area like Kalgoorlie Merredin Geraldton York  Kellerberrin and probably a couple of others - and all these horses that i say should be instantly retired at Albany - would find themselves  up their - and racing against each other and thus competitive - the trainers with the more quality horses would have no interest going their whatsoever 

    WA because they havent got the money - cant do that - but Vic and NSW can - thats the big difference - nothing to do with handicapping 

    Another example - Ben Yole - with his big team - i would say theres 25-30 of them who are deadset hopeless - they go around every week and have got no hope - and they should all be retired on the spot - and he would probably agree with you - the only place for them is the retirement paddock - but their owners keep racing them - and there is no handicapping system that will make them competitive 




    +1 -1
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    288 posts
    Markovina
    can you eloborate more on your comment below 

    The bottom line with Narrogin - given the WA horse population and the set up of the tracks here
     
    +1 -1
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    3,320 posts
    aussiebattler said:

    Markovina
    can you eloborate more on your comment below 

    The bottom line with Narrogin - given the WA horse population and the set up of the tracks here
     
    Ok - AB - i will give you the best example -Mildura - It is in the middle of nowhere ( and thats what protects it ) - i think it is closer to the SA CBD than Melb CBD 

    Now they have the fantastic situation - 40 meetings a year -8k races  80% of the horses are like those Narrogin horses that i say should be retired 

    However apart from Glen Douglass - he is the only trainer ( outside that area ) who sometimes takes horses their - plus a few average SA ones come across 

    So unlike Narrogin Albany -and Bond has even taken horses to Kellerberrin - those meetings get their eyes picked out with better class horses - that doesnt happen at Mildura - and it doesnt happen in the NSW Riverina ( Leeton/Junee/Temora/Wagga/Albury - again 80-90% of the horses are very low class horses - and thus Syd trainers because of the distance factor - dont raid it - even allowing for the fact its very good prizemoney

    Simple solution - NSW were broke - the industry was on its knees - they sold Harold Park for 100 m plus - that fixed alot of problems - and they still have got plenty of that doh left 

    WA should sell GP - and likewise save their industry 

    freodockers likes this post.

    VillageKid dislikes this post.

    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    GP is not RWWA's to sell. It is owned by the Gloucester Park Harness Racing Club.It requires a high percentage vote of the membership (2/3rds or maybe 3/4's) to agree to sale.

    Rex, VillageKid likes this post.

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    3,320 posts
    JayJay said:

    GP is not RWWA's to sell. It is owned by the Gloucester Park Harness Racing Club.It requires a high percentage vote of the membership (2/3rds or maybe 3/4's) to agree to sale.

    Sounds like the SA  set up - re Globe Derby Park and they have been fighting each other for years - multiple threats of eviction 

    Maybe with the sale of the TAB - and if that changes the distibution allocation - that might force their hand to sell GP 

    There seems to be money available in other states - Devenport trots - 100 years at the tiny Dev showgrounds - - all 3 codes going to a new 16 million  facility that is going to be built 
    +1 -1
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Well done Marko.
    You have hit the nail on the head.
    +1 -1
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    931 posts
    Markovina said:

    aussiebattler said:

    Markovina
    can you eloborate more on your comment below 

    The bottom line with Narrogin - given the WA horse population and the set up of the tracks here
     
    Ok - AB - i will give you the best example -Mildura - It is in the middle of nowhere ( and thats what protects it ) - i think it is closer to the SA CBD than Melb CBD 

    Now they have the fantastic situation - 40 meetings a year -8k races  80% of the horses are like those Narrogin horses that i say should be retired 

    However apart from Glen Douglass - he is the only trainer ( outside that area ) who sometimes takes horses their - plus a few average SA ones come across 

    So unlike Narrogin Albany -and Bond has even taken horses to Kellerberrin - those meetings get their eyes picked out with better class horses - that doesnt happen at Mildura - and it doesnt happen in the NSW Riverina ( Leeton/Junee/Temora/Wagga/Albury - again 80-90% of the horses are very low class horses - and thus Syd trainers because of the distance factor - dont raid it - even allowing for the fact its very good prizemoney

    Simple solution - NSW were broke - the industry was on its knees - they sold Harold Park for 100 m plus - that fixed alot of problems - and they still have got plenty of that doh left 

    WA should sell GP - and likewise save their industry 



    Must be forgetting about the Cramp domination at Mildura? Just takes one bloke like him to set up stable there and it goes back to being the same, it’s circumstances nothing else

    VillageKid, Gilgamesh likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • RexRex    404 posts
    JayJay said:

    GP is not RWWA's to sell. It is owned by the Gloucester Park Harness Racing Club.It requires a high percentage vote of the membership (2/3rds or maybe 3/4's) to agree to sale.

    They don't own Albany either.

    VillageKid likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    3,320 posts
    It will be interesting with the sale of the TAB 

    Up to this point n time  the gallops and greyhounds - re mathematical distribution on  turnover - have both been punished severely propping up harness racing 

    With the sale of the TAB - those days might be over - sink or swim - perform - or your on knees

    GP - will be luxury units one day - its going to happen - you have got rocks in your head if you dont think its going to happen 
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  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    Imagine there will be alot  to playout with the new owners Who gets redundancy payments & bonuses, what part of the business will be transferred over east ,were does non-tab gallop meetings get there funding --Standing starts-will they cease for pacers like Victoria .--- Evidently the government is going to receive One Billion.

    How will M.Ps deal with 2-3 people at RWWA getting bigger  salaries. See when TAB  handed over to RWWA 2002--03  someone received 108k redundancy
    +1 -1
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    3,320 posts
    savethegame said:

    Imagine there will be alot  to playout with the new owners Who gets redundancy payments & bonuses, what part of the business will be transferred over east ,were does non-tab gallop meetings get there funding --Standing starts-will they cease for pacers like Victoria .--- Evidently the government is going to receive One Billion.


    How will M.Ps deal with 2-3 people at RWWA getting bigger  salaries. See when TAB  handed over to RWWA 2002--03  someone received 108k redundancy
    The only reason standing starts got the flick in Vic - was they were  consistently the lowest turnover race - that is the only reason 

    It was a betting turnover decision 

    All states are different - probably the most supportive state of Stands is Tasmania - they have plenty of them - including last Saturdays  100k Tasmanian Pacing Cup - capacity field of 14 - and it was a thrilling race 
    +1 -1
  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    Markovina said:

    savethegame said:


    The only reason standing starts got the flick in Vic - was they were  consistently the lowest turnover race - that is the only reason 

    It was a betting turnover decision 


    Thats my concern --Not sure whose brought the tab. But the Tripp family play hard ball   started up sportsbet for 250k--sold it 388mil  his father use to operate out of  Vanuatu for tax concessions 
    +1 -1
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    freodockers said:

    Gilga you will see a detailed report when the TAB is sold and the distribution of funds will inevitably be overhauled to protect the long term sale $$$.
    In all reality the trotting industry is surviving on handouts from RWWA.
    A true reflection of trots turnover under the current system would see a reduction in stakemoney, driver payments etc etc. RWWA saving face ?? Maybe.
    However with no income from the TAB once it’s sold, those that actually earn the income are going to have a far bigger say on who gets what.
    Those that continue to bury their heads in the sand and say everything is rosy will be the first to say how they have been hard done by.


    +1 -1
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    The Hunter Cup as a stand was clearly the largest turnover race in Australia for years. The only reason stands were dropped was because Tabcorp wanted the time freed up on Sky for vision  of more events. Dogs & gallops were the beneficiaries. Adam Hamilton was the quisling of Tabcorp. 

    Gilgamesh, savethegame, cisco likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    Adam Hamilton wears more hats then Peter Dee in his main sketch.---Yes his stints with Tabcorp-- media managers position Now with Ladbrokes He was dead against  stands promoting himself.in the process 
    +1 -1
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    5,008 posts
    curmudgeon said:

    The Hunter Cup as a stand was clearly the largest turnover race in Australia for years. The only reason stands were dropped was because Tabcorp wanted the time freed up on Sky for vision  of more events. Dogs & gallops were the beneficiaries. Adam Hamilton was the quisling of Tabcorp. 




    It was funny, Adam Hamilton was on radio one day saying how much dislikes the stands, a text message came in saying “But Adam isn’t the NZ cup your favourite race”. He had no answer.

    savethegame, freodockers, curmudgeon, cisco, PackedMetalPanda likes this post.

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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    What is a “quisling”.
    +1 -1
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    STG Peter Dee.
    Now there’s a blast from the past.
    Rage with the Raunchy Girls.
    Misspent childhood.
    +1 -1
  • JayJayJayJay    8,623 posts
    freodockers said:

    What is a “quisling”.

    Norwegian or Finnish leader during World War II that headed up a puppet government that was a front for the Nazis....basically a traitor to his country.

    curmudgeon likes this post.

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  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    288 posts
    Markovina said:

    aussiebattler said:

    Markovina
    can you eloborate more on your comment below 

    The bottom line with Narrogin - given the WA horse population and the set up of the tracks here
     
    Ok - AB - i will give you the best example -Mildura - It is in the middle of nowhere ( and thats what protects it ) - i think it is closer to the SA CBD than Melb CBD 

    Now they have the fantastic situation - 40 meetings a year -8k races  80% of the horses are like those Narrogin horses that i say should be retired 

    However apart from Glen Douglass - he is the only trainer ( outside that area ) who sometimes takes horses their - plus a few average SA ones come across 

    So unlike Narrogin Albany -and Bond has even taken horses to Kellerberrin - those meetings get their eyes picked out with better class horses - that doesnt happen at Mildura - and it doesnt happen in the NSW Riverina ( Leeton/Junee/Temora/Wagga/Albury - again 80-90% of the horses are very low class horses - and thus Syd trainers because of the distance factor - dont raid it - even allowing for the fact its very good prizemoney

    Simple solution - NSW were broke - the industry was on its knees - they sold Harold Park for 100 m plus - that fixed alot of problems - and they still have got plenty of that doh left 

    WA should sell GP - and likewise save their industry 
    What would an injection of funding from the sale of GP do to improve the industry ,where would it be spent ,would not most of the funds go into establishing a new metro presence or into the provincial tracks 

    Mildura to Adelaide/Melbourne is no different in distance from Perth to Albany/Kalgoorlie the locals at those tracks haven’t been protected by the tyranny of distance 

    What improvements could be made to the industry Now to improve it in our time so the industry is still here for generations to come 


    Gilgamesh likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    For starters the pacing industry would get back financial control.
    The finances and industry controlled by a board that is actually interested in the success of pacing in WA.
    The easiest way to answer the question is look at what NSW and VIC have done.

    Markovina, savethegame likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    3,320 posts
    aussiebattler said:

    Markovina said:

    aussiebattler said:

    Markovina
    can you eloborate more on your comment below 

    The bottom line with Narrogin - given the WA horse population and the set up of the tracks here
     
    Ok - AB - i will give you the best example -Mildura - It is in the middle of nowhere ( and thats what protects it ) - i think it is closer to the SA CBD than Melb CBD 

    Now they have the fantastic situation - 40 meetings a year -8k races  80% of the horses are like those Narrogin horses that i say should be retired 

    However apart from Glen Douglass - he is the only trainer ( outside that area ) who sometimes takes horses their - plus a few average SA ones come across 

    So unlike Narrogin Albany -and Bond has even taken horses to Kellerberrin - those meetings get their eyes picked out with better class horses - that doesnt happen at Mildura - and it doesnt happen in the NSW Riverina ( Leeton/Junee/Temora/Wagga/Albury - again 80-90% of the horses are very low class horses - and thus Syd trainers because of the distance factor - dont raid it - even allowing for the fact its very good prizemoney

    Simple solution - NSW were broke - the industry was on its knees - they sold Harold Park for 100 m plus - that fixed alot of problems - and they still have got plenty of that doh left 

    WA should sell GP - and likewise save their industry 
    What would an injection of funding from the sale of GP do to improve the industry ,where would it be spent ,would not most of the funds go into establishing a new metro presence or into the provincial tracks 

    Mildura to Adelaide/Melbourne is no different in distance from Perth to Albany/Kalgoorlie the locals at those tracks haven’t been protected by the tyranny of distance 

    What improvements could be made to the industry Now to improve it in our time so the industry is still here for generations to come 


    NSW - with that money brought in a fantastic Country Cup program - every club in NSW - no matter how remote get their own Country Cup with excellent prizemoney no just for the Cup - ( eg 19k Broken Hill Cup - only have 1 TAB meeting per year ) but supporting races as well - they actually with that money reopened closed  country Trotting Tracks 

    But you need money to do these things - and you also need a CEO - who is totally in charge of WA Trotting - someone who has got plenty of get up and go - and has got a genuine love for WA Trotting - now 2 people who sadly no longer with us - but would be ideal canditate types - are Dr Ernie Manea - and the guy who bred Preaux Chevalier and was president of the Pinjarra Harness racing club - and absolutely loved that club - and had great pride in that club 

    Those 2 would put the current mob to shame 

    freodockers, savethegame likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    I nominate JayJay.

    savethegame likes this post.

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    3,320 posts
    freodockers said:

    I nominate JayJay.

    Hed be ok 

    You wouldnt have a day off in the 1st 3 mths - because there is so much that needs to be done 

    At least NSW and the Vics release 3 year business plans - this is what where planning and trying to do - allways striving for betterment and excellance 

    When do you ever see that in WA Trotting - non existent - as Peter Morris said - they pick up their nice pay packets - and that is it 

    savethegame likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    288 posts
    freodockers said:

    For starters the pacing industry would get back financial control.
    The finances and industry controlled by a board that is actually interested in the success of pacing in WA.
    The easiest way to answer the question is look at what NSW and VIC have done.

    Wouldnt RWWA still be in control of our industry and where the finances are distributed with the HCG the only representative to guide them with marginal input from minor industry groups 
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  • michaelmichael    17 posts
    Am in absolute disbelief that Bunbury cup called off

    Gilgamesh likes this post.

    +1 -1
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    288 posts
    Markovina said:

    aussiebattler said:

    Markovina said:

    aussiebattler said:

    Markovina
    can you eloborate more on your comment below 

    The bottom line with Narrogin - given the WA horse population and the set up of the tracks here
     
    Ok - AB - i will give you the best example -Mildura - It is in the middle of nowhere ( and thats what protects it ) - i think it is closer to the SA CBD than Melb CBD 

    Now they have the fantastic situation - 40 meetings a year -8k races  80% of the horses are like those Narrogin horses that i say should be retired 

    However apart from Glen Douglass - he is the only trainer ( outside that area ) who sometimes takes horses their - plus a few average SA ones come across 

    So unlike Narrogin Albany -and Bond has even taken horses to Kellerberrin - those meetings get their eyes picked out with better class horses - that doesnt happen at Mildura - and it doesnt happen in the NSW Riverina ( Leeton/Junee/Temora/Wagga/Albury - again 80-90% of the horses are very low class horses - and thus Syd trainers because of the distance factor - dont raid it - even allowing for the fact its very good prizemoney

    Simple solution - NSW were broke - the industry was on its knees - they sold Harold Park for 100 m plus - that fixed alot of problems - and they still have got plenty of that doh left 

    WA should sell GP - and likewise save their industry 
    What would an injection of funding from the sale of GP do to improve the industry ,where would it be spent ,would not most of the funds go into establishing a new metro presence or into the provincial tracks 

    Mildura to Adelaide/Melbourne is no different in distance from Perth to Albany/Kalgoorlie the locals at those tracks haven’t been protected by the tyranny of distance 

    What improvements could be made to the industry Now to improve it in our time so the industry is still here for generations to come 


    NSW - with that money brought in a fantastic Country Cup program - every club in NSW - no matter how remote get their own Country Cup with excellent prizemoney no just for the Cup - ( eg 19k Broken Hill Cup - only have 1 TAB meeting per year ) but supporting races as well - they actually with that money reopened closed  country Trotting Tracks 

    But you need money to do these things - and you also need a CEO - who is totally in charge of WA Trotting - someone who has got plenty of get up and go - and has got a genuine love for WA Trotting - now 2 people who sadly no longer with us - but would be ideal canditate types - are Dr Ernie Manea - and the guy who bred Preaux Chevalier and was president of the Pinjarra Harness racing club - and absolutely loved that club - and had great pride in that club 

    Those 2 would put the current mob to shame 

    All the current clubs in WA run a cup race , how would it differ? Race conditions or handicapping eligibility ?
    Wouldn’t be many tracks left to re-open in WA maybe Kalgoorlie and Harvey would still have the infrastructure ,
    Broken Hill style meetings have been discussed for all community clubs which would reduce their number of meetings in some circumstances back to 1 big meet instead of a few little ones ,would the community clubs support it ,debatable

    Biggest influence in the industry at the moment ?


    +1 -1
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    5,008 posts
    michael said:

    Am in absolute disbelief that Bunbury cup called off


    They are real quick to pull the trigger on shitting things down over the last 18 months. Surely could have waited-push them back a few.

    +1 -1
  • aussiebattleraussiebattler    288 posts
    Gilgamesh said:

    michael said:

    Am in absolute disbelief that Bunbury cup called off


    They are real quick to pull the trigger on shitting things down over the last 18 months. Surely could have waited-push them back a few.

    No lights at the moment at Bunbury track 

    Gilgamesh, PackedMetalPanda likes this post.

    +1 -1
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