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  • jum   6 seconds ago
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Hong Kong Season '14/'15

East Coast Racing

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  • therealkramertherealkramer    8,008 posts
    edited May 2015
    @thefalcon - Lane is 2/87[1 x 2nd, 5 x 3rd]....still striking better than Christian Reith(2/114)[5 x 2nd, 9 x 3rd) when he was in Honkers....although Reith didn't last with those numbers :-S
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  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    therealkramer said:

    carey said:

    so to the hong kong experts on here.....
    what do margins of TO and ML signify??
    they are obviously horses getting beaten a long way, but what exactly do they stand for and what's the difference?


    @carey I assume TO =Tailed Off. Not sure about "ML" haven't seen that one before...it could be mean 'Mildly Lame'....I realise it's not a margin, but we are talking about unclassified distances anyhow. May pay to check the race report on the website to confirm.
    of course, that makes sense for TO.
    there are about as many ML's as TO's but i can't see any difference.
    in both cases the horses are being beaten by huge margins, and upwards of maybe 8 seconds.
    i have done searches wherever i can think of and can't find anything.

    it does not matter much, because they obviously play no part in the race, and something has happened to them more likely than not.
    i just don't like not knowing things about anything i attempt to understand,
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  • therealkramertherealkramer    8,008 posts
    edited May 2015
    carey said:

    therealkramer said:

    carey said:

    so to the hong kong experts on here.....
    what do margins of TO and ML signify??
    they are obviously horses getting beaten a long way, but what exactly do they stand for and what's the difference?


    @carey I assume TO =Tailed Off. Not sure about "ML" haven't seen that one before...it could be mean 'Mildly Lame'....I realise it's not a margin, but we are talking about unclassified distances anyhow. May pay to check the race report on the website to confirm.
    of course, that makes sense for TO.
    there are about as many ML's as TO's but i can't see any difference.
    in both cases the horses are being beaten by huge margins, and upwards of maybe 8 seconds.
    i have done searches wherever i can think of and can't find anything.

    it does not matter much, because they obviously play no part in the race, and something has happened to them more likely than not.
    i just don't like not knowing things about anything i attempt to understand,

    'ML' could be something as simple as 'Many Lengths'. I looked and and couldn't find a legend on the website, so i'd lean towards it being something obvious.
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  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    that's exactly what it is.....it hit me when in bed last night......and just came on here to say, but was beaten to it!

    so simple, but then why use 2 different terms?
    one thing i have learned about hkjc, is that they are consistent, so i have no doubt they signify different things. even if the margin is huge there is going to be a reason why they use TO & ML.
    i expect i will find out sooner or later.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,947 posts
    The only time I've seen ML has been to do with the early odds on racing and sports betting. ML stood for Morning Line , early odds for the day on a race meeting or sports event. If it's in the margins section however I would say you guys are right. Until now I always thought of ML as Morning Line.
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  • therealkramertherealkramer    8,008 posts
    edited May 2015
    @carey I gather the distinction is due to whether the jockey has stopped urging the horse for more effort because of some issue such as a wind/breathing problem, lameness, Cardiac Arrhythmia etc, in the instance of a horse finishing 'Tailed Off or whether the horse is beaten 'Many Lengths' because of the way it was ridden or just a sheer lack of ability.
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  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    ok
    my next problem is......

    for the last maybe 5 years data i have gotten hold of, there are very few types of races(which is great), but i can't find the conditions of some types.

    for instance
    you have 'CLASS 4' for which I have 1300 instances.
    then there is 12 instances of 'CLASS 4 (RESTRICTED)'
    and 39 instances of 'CLASS 4 (SPECIAL CONDITIONS)'

    you would expect the restricted version of a class to be weaker than when it has no restrictions, but the 1st restricted one i checked is notionally 5 pounds stronger, than the usual non-restricted type.

    anyway i will work it out, but it would be nice to have a calendar describing race conditions of the ones that are restricted or special.

    below is how many race types run in all that time, & how many instances of each.































































    CLASS 1 119
    CLASS 2 337
    CLASS 3 1158
    CLASS 3 (SPECIAL CONDITION) 8
    CLASS 4 1303
    CLASS 4 (RESTRICTED) 12
    CLASS 4 (SPECIAL CONDITION) 39
    CLASS 5 530
    GRIFFIN RACE 26
    GROUP ONE 33
    GROUP TWO 15
    HONG KONG GROUP ONE 41
    HONG KONG GROUP THREE 58
    HONG KONG GROUP TWO 18
    RESTRICTED RACE 4
    for wa i think i had 6 zillion different types.
    and  because in wa there has been a new template every 6 minutes, with each one being more nonsensical than the preceding, then i feel like it's xmas time, when looking at HK

    i also like the idea of hong kong group whatever.
    that's what wa should do and stop pretending.
    i preface most of my wa stakes races PG1 or PG4, as in PRETEND group whatever. :^o
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  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    not very good formatting carey!
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  • therealkramertherealkramer    8,008 posts
    edited May 2015
    @carey I may be wrong but HKG1,2 & 3 races(as distinct from the G1, 2 & 3 races also run in HK) are only open to HK horses. WA is open to all who are willing to line up. Moody still has runners in the WATC Derby each year despite the race being stripped of its G1 status.
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  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    it wasn't stripped, it was a straight swap.
    a pg1 became a pg2 so that another pg2 could become a pg1.
    a bigger farce it would be difficult to find.

    i actually don't give a fig about theirs or any of other jurisdiction's 'stakes' races.
    it is just something i find slightly amusing, in that they can all be so blatantly dishonest, because none of their stakes races(or very very few) actually fit the required criteria.
    and yet they never get downgraded.
    same applies to other states, but more so wa because of their isolation
    it's actually one reason why racing in this country is stuffed.

    anyway, back to hk.
    i have figured that 'restricted' means it is for 3 year olds only, and the reason why it is notionally stronger, is because the 3yo 5lb allowance is not needed to be applied.

    now i just need to figure 'special conditions'

    not sure about your hkg races only being open to hk, horses, but i will find out sooner or later.
    hk does not have any horse as such, so how would they apply it?
    have to be trained by a registered hk trainer perhaps.


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  • colincolin    103 posts
    All horses that race in HK are owned by members of the Hong Kong Jockey Club. The horses can be bred anywhere.

    Like Japan, it (ownership) is very elite.

    The exception are international Group races where overseas horses and owners can race. December mainly but they just had some recently (Red Cadauex and Criterion ran).
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  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
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  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    10,567 posts
    Good interview
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  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    10,567 posts
    Had the 2 bets here today the last two races, and just backed the magic man. Cop the ride by Moreira in the last. You can just back him knowing he will get everything out of his runner ^:)^
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  • therealkramertherealkramer    8,008 posts
    H-BOMBER said:

    Had the 2 bets here today the last two races, and just backed the magic man. Cop the ride by Moreira in the last. You can just back him knowing he will get everything out of his runner ^:)^


    He was three wide the trip, wasn't he? Didn't look pretty at all.
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  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    10,567 posts
    Wide yes, but he went forward at the right time down the back, then when the horse looked gone he got everything out of it and carried it over the line. Maybe I was bias as I was on
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  • Thoroly_BreadThoroly_Bread    2,348 posts
    How many is that for the Magic Man this season? And whats the most wins in a season my any jockey ever in professional racing world wide?
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  • therealkramertherealkramer    8,008 posts
    I'm not sure about the second part of your question but Moreira has ridden 126 winners now after another four yesterday. I do remember James McDonald rode over 200 winners in a season in NZ to break the national(not sure if there is a metro/provincial distinction in NZ) record and whilst he was still an apprentice, too

    Thoroly_Bread likes this post.

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  • Thoroly_BreadThoroly_Bread    2,348 posts
    yep 217 in 2011, cheers. MM rode 215 in 2013, all up this year he has ridden 141 winners as has McDonald.
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  • SHOVHOGSHOVHOG    1,792 posts
    Teetan butchered a couple last night.

    Wish I had the time to put in to Hong kong.

    Need Linc to throw up some previews for Wednesday meetings.
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  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    thanks linc

    "The other is is restricted to horses who haven't won that year but have had 5 starts."

    CLASS 3 (SPECIAL CONDITION),8  ?????
    CLASS 4 (RESTRICTED),12  this one is for 3yo's only i have figured.
    CLASS 4 (SPECIAL CONDITION),39  ?????

    so the ones with the ???? are going to be those that have not won this season(or last 12 months?), but have had 5 starts??
    and where do you find that info?
    the numbers are just how many instances of these race types since mid 2010.



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  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    Moreira interview on Able Friend in UK

    http://www.racinguk.com/news/article/35773/moreira-is-ready-willing-and-able
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  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    http://www.racingbase.com/category/latest-news/queen-anne-stakes-news-able-friend-201506090004/
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  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
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  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    http://www.racing.com/news/2015-07-23/customer-understanding-key-to-hk-success
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  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    when i had looked at hong kong previously, everything was supplied to me.
    now i am looking for myself, i can't believe how much info is freely available on their web site.
    and it's actually much much more if you know what to do.
    i grabbed 5 year plus result data, sections data, trial data, trackwork data, the works.
    now i just have to see what i can do with it.

    G-Mac, Fastmoney likes this post.

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