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Attention : NO BOOKMAKERS ON COURSE AT PINJARRA ON SUNDAY 2nd FEB.

West Australian Racing
TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
edited January 2014 West Australian Racing
None of the 6 Bookies who nominated to work at Pinjarra this Sunday 2nd of Feb will be fielding.

This decision is a result of negotiations between the WABA and the club over stand fees, which were announced will increase from $100 to $250 from Sunday.

Most other states have abolished stand fees for bookmakers, acknowledging the ongoing struggle for bookies to compete and survive against the corporate bookmakers, who are not required to be present on course or pay stand fees, in order to offer the clubs product.

Pinjarra's decision to increase these stand fees has been the subject of intense negotiation over the past few weeks, resulting in them standing firm. 

This will mean there is no APN pricing service or fixed odds fluctuations and as such, Corporate Bookmakers will not be able to offer Top Fluc or Starting Price Guarantee products on this meeting. 
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Darkhorse, Sticks, bookielover, Tucool, H-BOMBER, Offthebit, Gilgamesh, thefalcon, Chelsea, RIO, theketaminekid, DamienWyer likes this post.

Comments

  • DarkhorseDarkhorse    666 posts
    Can't you bring your own stand
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  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    haha, its not the payment for the equipment you use....its a fee you pay to operate as a bookmaker on course.
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  • bradybrady    1,463 posts
    What a joke by the Pinjarra race club
    Costs less to stand on Sat at Ascot

    Chelsea, Dale, bookielover likes this post.

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  • RodentRodent    7,472 posts
    Clearly Pinjarra don't want bookies. I hope their turnover plummets.
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  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,991 posts
    I liken these stand fees to a charge on intellectual property. The Race Clubs believe they own the races and as such are allowed to charge a fee. Although this has been highlighted at Pinjarra, I think this is an issue that should be addressed by all clubs.

    That being the case, I would like appearance money paid to those higher performing horses that are continually used a draw cards to both the paying public and members of race clubs alike. If it is appropriate for race clubs to pay for hotel rooms and airfares of connections of visiting draw cards at carnival times and high profile feature races, then it is also justified that WA based Group winners are given some offset to expenses in providing the entertainment for the masses.

    After all, you can't be seen to be making money from bookmakers and charging the public to attend, but not paying the players ? If anyone can give me a professional sport where this is not the case, I would be happy to withdraw my suggestion.

    I also wish to ask when did I sign away my intellectual rights to images of my horses, I speak on behalf of my owners, to the point where I have to pay for images of my horse, but I cannot have the sports photographer of my choice attend any meeting ? I do not wish to be cornered by a monopoly for images or vision on property that is mine and not theirs and being asked to pay non market priced work. I would ask that this is applied to both stills and video. Both are a monopoly at this moment in time.


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  • LeglessLegless    5,108 posts
    edited January 2014
    Damien Wyer said:



    That being the case, I would like appearance money paid to those higher performing horses that are continually used a draw cards to both the paying public and members of race clubs alike. If it is appropriate for race clubs to pay for hotel rooms and airfares of connections of visiting draw cards at carnival times and high profile feature races, then it is also justified that WA based Group winners are given some offset to expenses in providing the entertainment for the masses.

    Great Idea !! If you own one that has won a group race then why not be supported by the local club. As you rightly mention interstate visitors are well looked after.
    Damien Wyer said:


    I also wish to ask when did I sign away my intellectual rights to images of my horses, I speak on behalf of my owners, to the point where I have to pay for images of my horse, but I cannot have the sports photographer of my choice attend any meeting ? I do not wish to be cornered by a monopoly for images or vision on property that is mine and not theirs and being asked to pay non market priced work. I would ask that this is applied to both stills and video. Both are a monopoly at this moment in time.


    I see 2 sides to this. I believe (and please correct me if I am wrong) that the current contractor MUST make photos available for purchase of the finish of every race not only at Ascot and Belmont, but Bunbury, Pinjarra, and Northam.
    Your pics are spectacular DW, however its the pic of the horse going past the post in 1st position that owners want.
    It would be unfair on anybody that had the contract, to trundle up the hill in the middle of winter to Northam, only to find that the owners of the winners of each race had arranged thier own private photographer for the day to take pictures for them.
    On the flip side I cant see any problem with you or anybody else providing images other than of the finish to whom ever you like

    Simmo likes this post.

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  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,991 posts
    When I went to The Curragh in Ireland, 3 years ago, they had a very different attitude towards race day photography and video. They embraced it. They said unfortunately they had already issued 35 media passes so the inside of the course was not available, but I had a free rein anywhere else I wanted to go. I have attached a couple of photo's of the day.

    Also just on Northam, if you do go up there, have a look behind the members bar. It's not just about being on the finish line if you want something to show people.


    final instructions.jpg
    2592 x 1210 - 730K
    r2 See The Stars little half brother.jpg
    1511 x 1018 - 244K
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  • thefalconthefalcon    20,495 posts

    i am pleased that you have taken a stand. are pinjarra mad?

    i hope every well backed tote favourite wins so you won't feel so bad and you can spend quality time with your families.

    bookielover likes this post.

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  • SimmoSimmo    11 posts

    And a few of weeks ago Pinjarra introduced the ability to bet fixed odds with the TAB oncourse. Am I right in saying this is the only racecourse that you can do this? They located this special terminal as close as possible to the bookmakers ring. Clearly they're not keen on bookies..

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  • RIORIO    14,902 posts
    You can do it at Ascot and Belmont Simmo.......But not sure about any other country tracks
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  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    Will be very interesting to see what the atmosphere is like with no bookies on track.

    It happened one time at Northam this year and nobody liked that too much. 
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  • runyonrunyon    576 posts

    The more things change,the more they stay the same.

    For anyone interested in a bit of racing history theres a great little article on this very subject in the 25 Jan 1903 Sunday Times.Just google Exit Ikey Mo.

    It's amazing over 110 years later bookies and race clubs are still at it.

    bookielover likes this post.

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  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    brady said:

    What a joke by the Pinjarra race club
    Costs less to stand on Sat at Ascot

    costs nothing to stand at Ascot midweek. 
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  • trojanhorsetrojanhorse    345 posts
    edited January 2014
    with the decline of bookie coming - why does the club not offer INCENTIVES to get bookie s to come - no stand fee - and possible say a incentive payment if he is losing on the day - No charges at all - try and make it better for bookie to come - not make it so it cost them to lose money
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  • bookieloverbookielover    2,709 posts
    edited January 2014
    I, for one, want to congratulate the genius at Pinjarra who came up with decision to more than double the stand fee for bookmakers.

    Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but I was told that the Pinjarra Trotting Club or Harness Club, whatever they call themselves, have in effect barred Steve Mulhall from working there.

    Could it be that the same genius is responsible for these two decisions. Only a genius, and every genius that I've known was mentally challenged in one way or another, could have come up with this decision.

    I congratulate the bookies for their stand in deciding not to fields.

    Either Mcaully or Bell whomever is calling, now won't be able to let off course punters know the bookie flucs.
    They might quote the fixed tote odds, but off course punters don't really see those as a lead to follow when having a bet. It's the Sky Commentator in the studio or the course commentator saying that Phar Lap has been backed from $5.00 into $3.20 that causes the flood of off course tote money and the subsequent increase in tote turnover.

    This will make for an interesting comparison, if someone on this forum can access the tote turnover for last year at the corresponding meeting, and compare it to this years.

    But, whether or not the tote hold is up or down, who the hell, besides an owner, trainer or jockey, who have a horse in, train or are riding, or those who live in the area with nothing to do, would bother to attend an all tote meeting. I hope the caterers are aware of the situation and halve their food order.

    Is their any truth to the rumour that the name of the person who made the decision at Pinjarra is called Richard Cranium? For $900 Richard has stuffed the meeting. Did Dick think at all about the bookies turnover and the tax that Pinjarra race club get out of that turnover? Did Dick think of the effect on the on course tote turnover, with less punters attending, and bookies not betting back with the tote. Did Dick factor in the loss to the club because of that? Did Dick think about what the drop in numbers would have on beer and food sales?

    I sincerely hope that Diva and the other 5 bookies will tell the so called racing journalist at the daily newspaper about the boycott. The more publicity the bookies can get the better.

     


    brady, Chelsea likes this post.

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  • thefalconthefalcon    20,495 posts
    journos are gagged, bl.

    Chris likes this post.

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  • RodentRodent    7,472 posts
    Hypothetical.....if a raceclub were to increase costs incurred by people competing against their own product, could that be deemed anti-competitive behaviour and be considered illegal? Maybe the WA bookies need to talk to the ACCC.

    RIO likes this post.

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  • tonytony    2,436 posts
    But Rodent the club does not own the TAB therefore ACCC unlikely to have any jurisdiction.

    Having said that I agree the club is being stupid.
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  • thefalconthefalcon    20,495 posts
    it would be helpful if somebody from the club came on here to explain their actions.
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  • RodentRodent    7,472 posts
    If the club gets a cut of fixed odds from the TAB and their actions are aimed at destroying competition for TAB fixed odds, I think the ACCC would like to know about it.
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  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    Im not really sure they understand anything past the $250 per bookie revenue they would be missing out on.

    As it turns out, they'll not get the $250 x 6 bookies. They'll now not get the 1% of turnover the bookies would have paid AND those fixed odds punters will now bet with the corporates, from whom the club does not collect ANY of the turnover tax paid. 

    My understanding is that monies bet with corporate bookmakers does not get distributed back to the club. Pinjarra only benefit from on course tote turnover and on course bookie turnover. (im not sure about the fixed odds terminals on course). 

    I guarantee you, people will be betting on their phones to get fixed odds on Sunday at Pinjarra. And thats a shame. 

    thefalcon, RIO, Chelsea likes this post.

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  • LeglessLegless    5,108 posts
    :-? Valid point Rodent - if suddenly 5 or 6 fixed odd machines appear at the track then the question needs to be asked.

    Are The Pinjarra Turf Club pushing bookies out because they are making more from TAB fixed odds?
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  • thefalconthefalcon    20,495 posts
    if i am not mistaken, the committee would have the final say..if so, they are wood ducks and idiots to boot.

    Gilgamesh likes this post.

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  • bookieloverbookielover    2,709 posts
    Diva, I have no reason to doubt Falcons assertion that the journos are gagged, so why not contact Racenet which would be one of the more widely read racing sites on the net. 

    I don't think they would censor the story.

    Also, Diva, do you have any idea if Bunbury are going to pull the same stunt? Or are their committeemen blessed with at least some intelligence and understanding of both the plight of the bookmaking fraternity, and the effect on revenue that your non-appearance will have.

    Also, you have got two meetings at Pinny on the 23rd. Feb and 6th. March. Do you think they will wake up, or will the Dick Craniums still be in charge of the asylum. I'm in Perth at that time, and there will be no appearance from me if there are no bookies.
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  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    I have no idea what will happen for the next two meetings. Hopefully it is all resolved by then.
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  • bookieloverbookielover    2,709 posts
    I hope so too. I lose a lot less at the punt, than my missus spends at the shops, and that's where we will be headed if this can't be resolved.

    If Bunbury bring it in, I'm cancelling the trip. I don't care if she spends the kids inheritance, but she'll want my punting bank. I can hear her now saying to me, "well, you won't be needing that money".
    :(( :(( :((
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  • BeanBean    114 posts
    Bookies have no guts nowadays. If you look at comparison of prices there is none, but with the corporate bookmakers there is. Bookies have driven themselves out of the industry as far as I'm concerned. They no longer give the punter a reason to punt with them. They may as well all stand in the same position with one board because they are all the same prices. One changes there price then the other does too.

    bookielover dislikes this post.

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  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    a sweeping generalisation mr bean? 
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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    3,025 posts
    Agree with you in this instance Diva on course bookies have been thrown to the wolves by administrators and obvious bookie haters like Mr Bean will have a shot without fully understanding the real issues. Bookie Lover mentioned the situation regarding the Pinjarra Harness Club and I have heard it stated that the current on course tote turnover is about 25% of the combined bookie tote turnover of a decade ago.

    bookielover likes this post.

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  • bradybrady    1,463 posts
    Bean said:

    Bookies have no guts nowadays. If you look at comparison of prices there is none, but with the corporate bookmakers there is. Bookies have driven themselves out of the industry as far as I'm concerned. They no longer give the punter a reason to punt with them. They may as well all stand in the same position with one board because they are all the same prices. One changes there price then the other does too.

    Most corporates follow the on course markets or Betfair markets
    Mr Bean do you want to c no bookmakers ?
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