WA's most successful stayer

TheDiva · May 2011

who was the best, helping PC out in creating this poll.
Thanks PC.

thefalcon · May 2011

c'mon diva....its gotta be the curry kid...RJ....
Cert. beaten in caulfield cup, a mackinnon & the biggy...
second starstruck, then herocity....please yrself the rest....

PC · May 2011

Rogan Josh had a fantastic 1999: 2nd in the Perth Cup, then was sent to Bart. Won the Group 2 Herbert Power Stakes at 2400m, 4th in the Caulfield Cup (should of won if Munce rode him more patiently), then won the Mackinnon, then won the Melbourne Cup. Also ran in the Hong Kong Vase a month or so after the Melbourne Cup and got 5th.

The Diva - thanks for your help with this poll. Much appreciated.

By the way: I have if any of you are on facebook, I have created a Rogan Josh page, paying tribute to a WA legend. All of you are more than welcome to "Like" this page. You can find his info for every start, major wins and best minor performances. There is also some great photos of Rogan Josh in action as well. Come and join..........the more the merrier.

Cheers,
PC.

PC · May 2011

The Falcon: I would have put Heroictiy ahead of Starstruck, won a BMW.

Tight call though.

Cheers,
PC.

PC · May 2011

Certainly in the last 20 years Rogan Josh is WA's most successful stayer. Before that well I dont know. Black Knight who was WA's 2nd Melbourne Cup winner won in 1984, although RJ was better than him. Then of course WA's first Melbourne Cup winner was Blue Spec in 1905 - and none of us were alive to see him run. But looking at his record he seemed a decent stayer - won a Perth Cup in 1904, then did the Moonee Valley Cup/ Melbourne Cup double in 1905.

Cheers,
PC.

PC · May 2011

1999 Melbourne Cup and Mackinnon Stakes - Rogan Josh

http://www.bartcummings.com.au/video.asp?v=MackinnonStksRoganJosh.wmv

1984 Melbourne Cup - Black Knight

Darrah · May 2011

Yeah Blue Spec for me, I was only a little kid but I do remember him out at Kalgoorlie.

:lol:

Tivers · May 2011

Definition of "Best" ?

For longevity and volume of performances - Socksie !!!

TheDiva · May 2011

definition of best = your opinion or perception......cant be anything else or we're all going to argue! :lol:

Ghurka · May 2011

Meliador.

PC · May 2011

I think Scenic Shot is more of a 2000m-2400m horse, his major wins so far are:

2009 Group 1 Mackinnon Stakes (2000m WFA)
2009 Group 1 Doomben Cup (2020m WFA)
2009 Group 2 Brisbane Cup (2400m hcp)
2009 Group 2 P.J O'Shea Stakes (2200m WFA)
2008 Group 2 P.J O'Shea Stakes (2200m WFA)
2008 Group 2 Hollindale Stakes (1800m WFA)
2006 Group 2 C.B Cox Stakes (2400m WFA)
2011 Listed Winning Edge Trophies Quality (1600m Qlty hcp)
2006 Listed Roberts Stakes (1800m set-weights)
2006 Listed Aquanita Stakes (1600m Qlty hcp)
2005 Listed T.J Smith Trophy (1800m Qlty hcp)

He has had 63 starts. First race was as a 2 year-old and is still racing as an 8 year-old - it shows his longevity and he is a tough horse as well.

So far he has won $2,623,355

Rogan Josh was more of a pure stayer as his major wins show:

1999 Group 1 Melbourne Cup (3200m hcp)
1999 Group 1 Mackinnon Stakes (2000m WFA)
1999 Group 2 Herbert Power Stakes (2400m hcp)
1998 Group 3 Bunbury Cup (2200m hcp)
1998 Listed Pinjarra Cup (2200m hcp)

Another thing with Rogan Josh is that he started racing as a 4 year-old in 1997 with his last race as a 7 year-old in 1999. He had 38 Starts. Hence why he didnt race for that long.

Rogan Josh won: $2,683,692

If there was a race at 2000m-2400m with Scenic Shot and Rogan Josh racing against each other - I would assume Scenic Shot would win. However if the race was at 3200m - I would assume Rogan Josh would win.

Scenic Shot has had 2 starts at 3200m: for a 4th (dead-heated) in the 2007 Perth Cup and a 16th in the 2007 Melbourne Cup.

Rogan Josh had 2 starts at 3200m: for a 2nd in the 1999 Perth Cup and a 1st in the 1999 Melbourne Cup.

For me it's Rogan Josh, he is the best stayer - he has had the most success at the staying distance.

Anyways thats my 5 cents worth.

Interesting poll though.

Cheers,
PC.

Tivers · May 2011

Well said / put

Famous1 · May 2011

Plastered would have been the best, unfortunately injury crippled him

slaughtered savabeel...

Semipropunter · May 2011

Northerly. Carried the most weight in 20 years when winning the Caulfield Cup and was weighted 60kg in the Melb. cup, but kersley chose not to run him. Was beaten in a track record in the BMW. He's a champion and wins the debate on that count alone.

PC · May 2011

Famous1 I agree - Plastered might have been the best, sadly we never saw the best of him. But what we did see of him was very good. His Victoria Derby win where he came from last and mowed them down was very very good. I think it was his best win.

In fact I had Plastered down to be WA's next Melbourne Cup winner, we have only had three so far :-( . In my opinion Plastered had much more ability that Rogan Josh (not running RJ down or anything like that) Plastered had a great turn of foot.

It may have been a short career but it was a good career.

Cheers,
PC.

dungy · May 2011

said:
I think Scenic Shot is more of a 2000m-2400m horse, his major wins so far are:

2009 Group 1 Mackinnon Stakes (2000m WFA)
2009 Group 1 Doomben Cup (2020m WFA)
2009 Group 2 Brisbane Cup (2400m hcp)
2009 Group 2 P.J O'Shea Stakes (2200m WFA)
2008 Group 2 P.J O'Shea Stakes (2200m WFA)
2008 Group 2 Hollindale Stakes (1800m WFA)
2006 Group 2 C.B Cox Stakes (2400m WFA)
2011 Listed Winning Edge Trophies Quality (1600m Qlty hcp)
2006 Listed Roberts Stakes (1800m set-weights)
2006 Listed Aquanita Stakes (1600m Qlty hcp)
2005 Listed T.J Smith Trophy (1800m Qlty hcp)

He has had 63 starts. First race was as a 2 year-old and is still racing as an 8 year-old - it shows his longevity and he is a tough horse as well.

So far he has won $2,623,355

Rogan Josh was more of a pure stayer as his major wins show:

1999 Group 1 Melbourne Cup (3200m hcp)
1999 Group 1 Mackinnon Stakes (2000m WFA)
1999 Group 2 Herbert Power Stakes (2400m hcp)
1998 Group 3 Bunbury Cup (2200m hcp)
1998 Listed Pinjarra Cup (2200m hcp)

Another thing with Rogan Josh is that he started racing as a 4 year-old in 1997 with his last race as a 7 year-old in 1999. He had 38 Starts. Hence why he didnt race for that long.

Rogan Josh won: $2,683,692

If there was a race at 2000m-2400m with Scenic Shot and Rogan Josh racing against each other - I would assume Scenic Shot would win. However if the race was at 3200m - I would assume Rogan Josh would win.

Scenic Shot has had 2 starts at 3200m: for a 4th (dead-heated) in the 2007 Perth Cup and a 16th in the 2007 Melbourne Cup.

Rogan Josh had 2 starts at 3200m: for a 2nd in the 1999 Perth Cup and a 1st in the 1999 Melbourne Cup.

For me it's Rogan Josh, he is the best stayer - he has had the most success at the staying distance.

Anyways thats my 5 cents worth.

Interesting poll though.

Cheers,
PC.

I define the word CHAMPION a year in year out consistant performer at the highest level Socks was a brillaint 2 yold and is still a brillaint 8 year old he gets the nod for me

PC · May 2011

Notherly wasn't a pure stayer. He was more of a WFA horse who was able to run at 2400m.

dungy · May 2011

said:
Famous1 I agree - Plastered might have been the best, sadly we never saw the best of him. But what we did see of him was very good. His Victoria Derby win where he came from last and mowed them down was very very good. I think it was his best win.

In fact I had Plastered down to be WA's next Melbourne Cup winner, we have only had three so far :-( . In my opinion Plastered had much more ability that Rogan Josh (not running RJ down or anything like that) Plastered had a great turn of foot.

It may have been a short career but it was a good career.

Cheers,
PC.

They tried to sell him in the end to some of Freedys clients but didnt vet up had a throat problem ouch!!!! the offer was over 1m so im told

PC · May 2011

Where is Plastered these days? Hope he is somewhere and living comfortably.

Cheers,
PC.

PC · May 2011

dungy: there is no doubt that Scenic Shot is a consistent performer - and a very good one as well.

But whats his record at staying distances beyond 2400m?

He is not a true a stayer and the question is in regards to stayers.

He can't run 3200m.

Cheers,
PC.

TorpedoPunt · May 2011

I though potentially King of Saxony could have been.

PC · May 2011

Torpedo Punt: ahh King Of Saxony. If only he wasn't injury plagued. Who knows - he might of went east as well.

Beat Rogan Josh in the Perth Cup. I think he won that Perth Cup after nearly a year off the scene or something. None the less it was a good win. I saw that win on the Perth Racing website earlier in the year. Not sure if it's still on there.

Cheers,
PC.

thefalcon · May 2011

How many rivals did he have in his Derby? If i remember it was a pretty weak field...compared to other years. But, a Derby is a Derby...
Didn't the greedy owners flog him?? ie sell him...or try to.
He was a knackered conveyance by then...

Hitman · May 2011

said:
Northerly. Carried the most weight in 20 years when winning the Caulfield Cup and was weighted 60kg in the Melb. cup, but kersley chose not to run him. Was beaten in a track record in the BMW. He's a champion and wins the debate on that count alone.

Agree, IF he had run in the cup and won , he would be on top.
On what they did win, Rogan Josh wins easy.

thefalcon · May 2011

You're right hitman...racing is full of "coulda's", shoulda's" & "might haves"
It all boils down to winners are grinners and losers can please themselves.. :wink:

TheFunkster · May 2011

said:
Torpedo Punt: ahh King Of Saxony. If only he wasn't injury plagued. Who knows - he might of went east as well.

Beat Rogan Josh in the Perth Cup. I think he won that Perth Cup after nearly a year off the scene or something. None the less it was a good win. I saw that win on the Perth Racing website earlier in the year. Not sure if it's still on there.

Cheers,
PC.

He won it first-up, trained from the beach (and prison) because of his dodgy legs.

Best WA 3yo stayer i have seen is Crying Game. Unfortunately he probably never came back the same horse :(
Could have been one of the best

But I would have thought Aquanita first, daylight second:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/-/racing/7833387/aquanita-toast-of-town/

PC · May 2011

Hitman, Falcon: Yep I agree. For my its Rogan Josh.

Cheers,
PC.

PC · May 2011

I guess it just shows that if you have a stayer with some potential then the best thing to to is to be patient with them. Plastered was flogged poor thing.

Crying Game didnt come back as the same horse when he was a 3 year-old.

I reckon Rogan Josh is a good example of patience. I bought Wendy Green's book earlier in the year called: Wendy In Wonderland. Its all about Rogan Josh and Wendy. In the book it says that Rogan Josh failed to reach his reserve price at the yearling sales so Wendy's brother Marcus and her went halfs and bought him (eventually Wendy bought her brothers share)

Anyways when Marcus put RJ into training he would always be shin-sore. That's why he didn't race until he was a late 4 year-old, which is rare.

It paid off. When Colin Webstar became his trainer he believed Rogan Josh had the potential of a 4 year-old even though he was a 6 year-old turning 7 and as Bart Cummings says - a horse is only as old as its legs. Meaning that some 2 and 3 year-olds that are run into the ground have legs of a 7 or 8 year-old or older, but in RJ's case - cos he was so lightly race - he was fresh and had young legs.

It just shows that patience is the name of the game in horse racing and it can take you a long way.

Cheers,
PC.

Skywest_Airlines · May 2011

It has to be Guyno. His record it excellent is very very good, its brilliant.

G1 WA Derby (2400m)

G2 Perth Cup (2400m)

G3 Lord Reims Stakes (2600m)

Listed Mornington Cup (2400m)

Listed Melvista Stakes (2200m)

Listed TJ Smith Trophy (1800m)

I say Guyno. Guyno all the way.

dungy · May 2011

said:
I guess it just shows that if you have a stayer with some potential then the best thing to to is to be patient with them. Plastered was flogged poor thing.

Crying Game didnt come back as the same horse when he was a 3 year-old.

I reckon Rogan Josh is a good example of patience. I bought Wendy Green's book earlier in the year called: Wendy In Wonderland. Its all about Rogan Josh and Wendy. In the book it says that Rogan Josh failed to reach his reserve price at the yearling sales so Wendy's brother Marcus and her went halfs and bought him (eventually Wendy bought her brothers share)

Anyways when Marcus put RJ into training he would always be shin-sore. That's why he didn't race until he was a late 4 year-old, which is rare.

It paid off. When Colin Webstar became his trainer he believed Rogan Josh had the potential of a 4 year-old even though he was a 6 year-old turning 7 and as Bart Cummings says - a horse is only as old as its legs. Meaning that some 2 and 3 year-olds that are run into the ground have legs of a 7 or 8 year-old or older, but in RJ's case - cos he was so lightly race - he was fresh and had young legs.

It just shows that patience is the name of the game in horse racing and it can take you a long way.

Cheers,
PC.

Talk about flogging a horse to near death poor old Crying game was a super horse she just FLOGGED IT

PC · May 2011

dungy - yeah it was shame Crying Game was ran into the ground. A bit of patience was all that was needed. He could have come back a better older horse if he wasnt run into the ground in his early years.

Skywest_Airlines - are you sure Guyno is your choice?? or is that misprint.

Cheers,
PC.

G'day Punter!

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